I searched "snatcher sega cd" and google suggested "snatcher sega cd rom"
why yes, google, it was on CD-ROM!
I'm going to pretend that's what all the searchers were looking for, and they weren't just calling the pirated file for a CD-based game "a ROM"
foone: I hate linguistic prescriptivism. Language changes, grandpa, get used to it!
google: hey some kids think the word "rom" means all pirated games, not just ones from ROM-based systems like the Atari 2600 through N64
foone: my eyes are bleeding but I guess that's alright
google: want some MS-DOS ROMS?
foone: THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS MS-DOS ROMS!
except for the games available for the PCjr on cartridge, and arguably the firmwares of many 90s palmtops contained a version of DOS that fit into ROM... so those firmwares are "DOS ROMs"
BUT THERE DEFINITELY WASN'T A "DOOM ROM" UNLESS YOU MEAN A VERSION FOR THE GBA OR SUPER NINTENDO
wait, Atari Jaguar! It had Doom as well. I always think of it as a CD-ROM system (it came out in 1993, it should have been one) because it did later get a CD add-on, but I don't believe Jaguar-Doom used the CD add-on, I think it was a cart
the official Doom wiki suggests that I forgot:
* Sega 32X
* N64
and I think that's it for commercial ports. There's certainly fan-ports lots of other consoles, many of which use ROMs
For reference since I didn't actually explain and clearly not everyone knows this:
"ROMs" are named like that because they're ROM dumps. Early pre-CD consoles used Read Only Memory chips to store the games, so to pirate the game you took that chip and dumped it, giving you a ROM Dump file. Stick that file onto an ((E)E)PROM or into an emulator, and you can play it without buying it. "ROM dumps" quickly got shortened to just "ROMs"
PC games never (again, other than the weird PCjr) used ROM chips for games, they used floppy disks, type-in BASIC, or cassette tapes. None of those have "ROM dumps" as there's no ROM to dump, thus no "ROMs"
later we got CDs (and DVDs, technically) for PC games, but those don't have "ROM dumps", they have "disc images" or "ISOs".
and then eventually games went fully downloadable, so neither ROMs nor ISOs make sense: They're just sparkling warez
but for a lot of people the word "ROMs" has always meant "pirated games" so they expanded it to all pirated games. You've got PS2 ROMs, you've got ROMs of steam games released this week, you've got ROMs of games that came on barcodes, which are many things but NOT ROMS.
so it's technically incorrect but not linguistically incorrect. The word's general use has widened from the technical meaning.
THIS DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE IT
I forgot to explain: The CD-ROM one is also weird.
They're called ISOs because the CD-ROM filesystem standard is ISO 9660, and that's ISO as in the International Organization for Standardization (ISO*).
In a different world the file extension/file type would have been dot iso9660 and we'd... probably still be calling them ISOs, honestly, but DOS/Windows only supporting 3-character extensions at the time didn't help.
* blame the French. UTC stands for "Coordinated Universal Time", you know?"
but yeah. over in the PC space, this stuff was always just warez. as in "softwares", but with a Z, so it's Kool.
with multiple words for different specific types of pirated media (warez/isos/images/roms) it's no surprise the larger community settled on just one name.
but since it's technically incorrect it does make my bloodpressure go up a little everytime I see it used wrong.
although to be honest, ISO was misused a lot too.
an "ISO" is technically a specific type of dump of a CD-ROM, it's the dumped ISO-9660 filesystem into a linear file.
But that filesystem doesn't contain any CD audio, those are separate. So more likely you'll see a bin/cue pair with some audio tracks, if the game uses CD-audio (and many did!)
so often have I downloaded "ISOs" (from Highly Legitimate Sources (says the retrogaming researcher/hacker)) and instead of an ISO file I have one of the 800 different disc image format that aren't actually ISOs
some consoles even have their own disc image formats!
Ever look into Wii games? It's madness over there.
There's a whole special toolset for converting between ISOs, WDF, WIA, CISO, GCZ, and WBFS.
anyway this has been annoying me for so long that 8 years ago I ported a version of Tetris to run off a ROM chip on an ISA card. Therefore I had a "ROM" of a PC game. I played it in an old 286 board with no drives attached, floppy, optical, or hard!
Mind you, the emulator I'm using right now (BizHawk) doesn't help matters. It has a File->Open ROM menu item that'll open everything from an NES game to a PS1 disc image to an Apple II floppy disk image.
@foone I remember when in the mid-2000s if you wanted pirated things you searched Name ISO, I wonder why that fell out of style?
@Canageek nothing comes on CDs anymore?
@foone I mean, nothing comes on ROM chips either! I mean, why did ROM piracy terms win when ISO piracy terms were more popular when I was an undergrad, as I recall.
@foone Oh wow that board brings back memories... built a lot of systems with those!
@foone Now I’m curious if you could replace the BIOS chip entirely with a Tetris ROM
@MenhirMike Sure. It'd be more work but it's doable.
@foone how did it start the game code?
@martin_piper the PC BIOS has long had support for something called "Option ROMs".
Basically after it finishes POST but before it tries to boot, it checks for any cards with ROM at specific addresses, and if it finds some, it executes them.
it's used to do things like initialize SCSI cards or network cards, in case you need to boot off one of them.
Instead of booting anything, my option ROM just played Tetris.
If you run a game off a flash drive with a physical write-protect switch that has been glued into the read-only position, you would still be running it off of a ROM.
@foone now I really want to know about your feelings regarding the usage of ROM (e.g. stock ROM, custom ROM) in the context of Android(-based) OS
@foone an image!!!! this is so awesome, I hope you continue on this road!
@foone oh, nice with the ROM game too!
@foone People be all like "so it must have used the PC BIOS functions to initially..." and not like "YOU DID WHAT?"
@foone guess I should consider myself lucky that I only needed a special IOS to dump my Wii games to a WBFS partition (weird-butt filesystem!)
@foone don't forget CHD! Imho it's a pretty good compromise between archival storage (compression, integrity verification) and practical use (seekable access). Doesn't really work with FPGA systems though because iirc none of them have enough CPU horsepower to decode in real time
@foone
and now RVZ as Dolphin's native (better than the mess of the rest) compression format too
@foone Thanks(?) for reminding me about GD-ROM
@foone I looked, I saw, I wish I hadn’t.
@foone hold on, does that mean that if I took an “iso” with dd if=device of=file.iso that I can salvage the CD audio out of file.iso?
@mhoye no, because that's making an ISO9660 dump, that's literally what an ISO file is, it contains no CD-ROM audio. That's in separate non-ISO9660 tracks
@foone but isn’t “dd if=device” making a bit wise copy of all the data on that device? I mean, I didn’t think dd knows what an iso is…
@mhoye Nope. The audio tracks aren't exposed through that interface.
That interface is intended for access to the filesystem.
This makes sense for Historical Reasons, where PCs would access the filesystem data, but the audio data just got played, and the CPU wasn't involved: The drive itself is playing the audio, and it's just being routed to the speakers (through cables, not software).
To pull the audio data off a disc, you need cdparanoia or EAC or something similar
@aredridel @mhoye @foone on FreeBSD at least it works but you need to specify the correct block size of 2352 vs 2k for data
@aredridel @foone huh, this has been fascinating. Thank you both.
@foone Wait, CD-*ROM* audio?
Is there such a thing as yellow book specific audio tracks?
I thought that audio tracks not being part of iso dumps was because they're plain old red book CD-DA
@kastor whoops. that was a typo. I meant CD-Audio.
But yeah, it's red-book audio vs ISO-9660 files.
@foone I have software that makes ISO images out of DVDs and Blu-rays, which is weird since those don't contain an ISO file system, they're both UDF. But nobody decided to make a .udf image format and just adapted .iso to fit. Every disc image format is just some proprietary thing made for One Piece Of Software which became a standard due to piracy proliferation and free/shareware distribution, nobody ever settled on a perfect solution. One issue is that .iso files can't save the DVD layer break
@foone I used to use AnyDVD HD which could output a file with the layerbreak metadata as a separate small text file, but then Redfox vanished off the face of the Internet (for the second time) so I moved to XReveal which still rips everything to .iso but does not output layer break metadata. Not like it really matters since imgburn will recommend the best place to stick the layer break if you ever decide to burn an image without that metadata.
@foone I learned that some games use CD audio when Age of empires suddenly blared nightwish once xD
@foone analog? that made me boil a bit inside, like i know what you meant but it's as analog as a stream of bits could be lol
@NULLderef oh that was a typo, whoops. fixed
@foone a streamer I like pronounces Warez like Juarez and it fucks me up every time he does it. I feel like he does it on purpose.
@Mareepy I'm sure he does. I've definitely done that more than once
@foone
I had always (until relatively recently) pronounced "warez" as 2 syllables, having never heard it said aloud or has it explained. I still think of the Nerdboy comic character "W4r3z-D00d" as "war-ezz dude"...
@foone nah, it was "kewl" ;o)
(that particular part of the 1990s -- where "kewl" was dropped in convo -- should rightfully be committed to the annals of history)